#eclipse analysis

[alexandraisyes]

A small ramble about Eclipse's therapy

Okay, so this is all copy-pasted from Discord where I was going through it minute by agonizing minute and just rambling my little heart out

This episode. Specifically this one. Ramble under cut.

Reminders before I talk about this! Eclipse is confirmed to have ASPD in canon. I also have ASPD. I do know things on that topic because of this unfortunate fact. For some in-depth things on Eclipse's sociopathy, I suggest popping over to these two analyses! Eclipse Is a Sociopath - Traits of ASPD

Eclipse obviously doesn't even want to be here, we know this from the very start when Moon is literally shoving him to get him into the room

Eclipse attempts (and fails) to intimidate both Moon and Solar. First with the comment about Lunar, which was meant to get under Moon's skin but when he didn't get a reaction he brushed it off with a 'whatever'. Next with the stand-off with Solar "Name is Solar" Technically correct, as we know from earlier episodes that his name is "Solar Eclipse" and Lunar is "Lunar Eclipse" The 'eclipse brothers' (Which is only further supported by the fact that a blood moon is a type of eclipse) Of course, we all know this was not the answer Solar was wanting. (Solar gets his own petty revenge by dragging the process out. Moon also gets petty revenge by mocking Eclipse. This is honestly a good reminder that they all came from the same base personality.)

Eclipse was flabbergasted. Absolutely gobsmacked. Shook When Moon told him upfront that he does need therapy. I think this stems partly from the fact that this is Moon and Moon has never tried to do something that would benefit Eclipse And then just being told what he already knows by someone else probably caught him off guard. He doesn't want to go to therapy because he thinks that therapy means he is weak. We already know how Eclipse feels about being weak and needing to rely on others for literally anything. We see this on a lesser extent with Solar who doesn't ask for anything because he doesn't want to be seen as a burden.

I do think it's important that he calls Solar the 'inferior version' right after calling him the 'better version' of himself. He called Solar better than him and then immediately change his words. Possibly because he can't stand the fact that Solar actually is better than him. Not necessarily in what one thinks of when we do comparisons like that, but more of Solar's more stable than Eclipse. He has a family to lean back on. . . unlike Eclipse. The one person that Eclipse cared about (at one point but now claims to hate) now hates Eclipse but loves Solar, which is just. . . another version of Eclipse. And that knowledge has to be painful, even for Eclipse.

It's also possible that Eclipse actually does think that Solar is inferior due to the common mindset that socio/psychopaths tend to have about 'normal people' around them. We pity people on a superficial level for being held back by fickle things like emotions and guilt, while also blatantly ignoring our own issues that make our own lives 582390458234098x harder due to the packaged deal that is ASPD

(To briefly summarize the "package deal" - along with socio/psychopathy toss in Anxiety Disorders, Paranoia, Dissociation/Derealization Issues, PTSD, ADHD/ADHD-symptoms, and Depression)

Back to the analysis

Eclipse immediately starts to mock Earth's office. He tends to mock Earth a lot in the past, because she's a very reactive character. It also used to be a lot easier to make her insecure. Someone who is insecure isn't going to press a hostile party for conversation/information.

Earth, like the girl-boss she is, calls him out. Kudos to Earth

Okay let's step back from Eclipse a second because MOON This is probably the worst possible timing for him to bring Eclipse in for a therapy appointment and he knows it and even though Earth says it's fine he's still apologizing and genuinely sorry and I think that's a huge step from how he was falling apart a little bit ago and slipping back into what Old Moon was Moon's also always had a soft spot for Earth (Big brother syndrome except Moon is technically the youngest sibling)

Okay back to Eclipse. After a failed attempt to get under Earth's skin he goes for Moon again. The man really do be flabbergasted that the two most reactive people he knows aren't giving him the reaction he wants.

And then back to Earth. He honestly spends the first bit just trying to get a reaction out of everyone because that's what he's good at. He's exasperated when Earth starts asking him questions, and gives her his normal sarcastic a-hole response. He's purposefully unnerving and trying to make both Earth and Moon uncomfortable because he doesn't want to be there.

He skirts around the abandonment question, which just lets everyone in the room know that he does indeed feel abandoned. He deflects the question honestly horribly in my opinion. "Abandoned, why would I feel abandoned?" Proceeds to list off reasons that he would feel abandoned but phrases them as questions. Sir? Try harder.

Moon plays a common tactic when dealing with unwilling peoples. "The sooner you play along the sooner you can leave." Common courtroom/interrogation tactic. Gives a goal to work toward while also implying that they're willing to stick around for as long as the person in the room is willing to bullcrap them. This may be a familiar tactic to the audience because parents love using this when teens are lying to them. So do teachers. "Just tell us what we want to hear and then we can be done. But if you sit here in silence then I'll sit here in silence with you."

Reminds me of parole. A lot of people who've gotten in trouble with the powers that be are required to participate in active therapy if they want to get out of a heavier charge. It's a common requirement of plea deals

Watch me ramble Back on track

Plsplspls and then Eclipse says the same thing I FORGOT HE SAID IT CUT ME SOME SLACK IM TYPING AS I WATCH THIS FOR THE SECOND TIME ITS BEEN A WHOLE DAY I've got the adhd my memory is not that good sir

I'm only 6 minutes in are you bored yet

Earth does irritate him by making assumptions about him that are wrong. It's a small blow to the pride. He's not acting like he doesn't care, he just doesn't care. And then he just starts bullcrapping so I'm gonna call him out on his bullcrap

He didn't just care about the star

Someone who doesn't care isn't going to be hurt by rejection so lets go over the list

Getting back to Moon. Remerging their code which is where he felt like he was supposed to be. Moon shoved him away, rejected him, and that made him upset

Lunar. Lunar wasn't just a means to an end because Lunar had just the right traits, the right level of whatever to make Eclipse care about him. Think of it like this. Eclipse was barely offended by Bloodmoon attacking him and ditching him. But he went out of his way to blow Lunar up because Lunar, in his eyes, betrayed him

The star to an extent. He cared less about the star itself and more about being able to make a world perfect for him and those around him. He was a Lawful Evil type back then (Dances in DnD language)

Eh that's honestly all I can think of off the top of my head. I'd argue he also cared about Sun to an extent because he used to be Moon, but probably not as much these days lol But yeah CUT THE CRAP ECLIPSE GRRR WHOO LOW SELF ESTEEM "You'd all just immediately try to find a way to kill me" He really do think that everyone would just go out of their way to kill him even if he was existing peacefully. He's half right

Sun didn't really want anything to do with it. Solar was just going along with it because Moon's his best friend (and Solar himself is insecure whoo). Earth isn't confrontational. Ruin (who probably brought eclipse back, btw where did he disappear to we haven't seen that cockroach for a while) didn't hop on the kill Eclipse train until after he was 'kidnapped', and we all know how sus that was. Lunar, yeah, but that's Lunar. Moon also was immediately like "omg kill this guy" but also, that's just Moon. Like I have talked about how self-centered those two are before, haven't I? Monty also wanted to kill Eclipse on sight but he's literally worse than Moon so he don't really count. Monty is literally an awful person who is only semi-decent because of Earth

Eclipse describes his death to Earth as if she wasn't literally there. Again. Reactions. As well as the weird complinsult which she has no idea how to process. Is it an insult? Is it a compliment? It's both honey. It's both. Take it or leave it. Once again frustration and insecurity at the lack of control Eclipse has ove everything. From being monitored, to being brought back, to literally being in a brand new body that he had no say in. The physical lack of control bleeds into the mentality that he has no control over anything, including his own thoughts and emotions. And what's sad is it's kind of true. . . he can't even control his own actions some of the time because of the directives. That just makes him feel paranoid and hopeless, and while he doesn't say it explicitly, it shows. He doesn't think he can change in his mentality because he can't change anything else around him either. That's part of why he thinks therapy is pointless.

10:30 This is where I argue he takes off his metaphorical mask. Not because he trusts Earth, but he's trying to see where her breaking point is. She's been patient and kind and making an attempt to be understanding and it's curious because no one has ever just sat there and asked him questions and let him ramble. He's trying to make her uncomfortable still, but he's also curious. This is a button that has never been presented to him before, how many times can he press it before it's taken away from him. At first he's thinking about his answers, calculating his responses, but it feels honest.

12:20 And then he realized that he was getting ahead of himself and that he was just rambling because he's never had someone to talk to and he stops. Whether it's because it's something he doesn't want her to know, or Moon to know, or it's just something he isn't ready to say out loud yet, he changes topics.

And then he's back to deflecting and getting the focus off of him and poking at Earth again

(Side note: Earth calls him an idiot in a roundabout way and it made me giggle both times watching it)

"You would take more pride in-" Pauses video Gestures frantically PRIDE UGH THE FALLING POINT OF A SOCIOPATH IS OUR PRIDE Yes he would take more pride in it being about information gathering. He'd probably be more complicit if it were for that purpose instead of 'inner healing' because going to therapy is a BLOW TO HIS PRIDE IM Ignore me as I go insane Presses play

Eclipse breaking the fourth wall like-

He's very cynical about the idea of trust and it's because the few times he put his trust in someone/thing it's failed him. AND THEN MORE DEFLECTION ECLIPSE PLEASE- Just stay on topic I'm begging you I know it's hard but LET ME HARVEST YOUR BRAIN MAN STOP DEFLECTING

He's so gobsmacked when Earth claims that we aren't defined by who makes us. Which must be hard to hear for Eclipse because for a while there his entire identity was defined by the fact that he was made by Moon and left behind.

He presses Earth for further detail about this and it makes me wonder if this was the first time he's ever heard or conceptualized this

It's fun to hear Eclipse (I think for the first time) finally verbally disown Sun and Moon. "I don't care to make it right anymore. They've cast their stone and now I'm stuck in my own ship." AKA They had their chance to give him a chance time and time again and each time they shunned him. Why would you go back to someone who has only caused you pain? Eclipse is in a similar situation with Sun/Moon that Lunar is in with him. Part of him wants to be back with them because he was made from them, they will always be part of him just how Eclipse will always be part of Lunar. Violence begets more violence.

I do think it's interesting how Eclipse doesn't acknowledge that he blew up Lunar and it's probably because he didn't blow up Lunar. The Eclipse before him did. Just like how Moon didn't reject him, the Moon before did. (I'll come back to that later)

Earth has to point out that Lunar got ka-boomed and then Eclipse laughs "Oh yes, I did, right." Because, again, he didn't. The Eclipse before him did. It feels like he's trying to avoid taking accountability for that (and good on him because he's technically innocent it's not his fault he has the corrupted memories of a dead man)

HOWEVER ON THAT NOTE

It does feel like with every day that passes by those memories become more of who he is now, and he's slowly accepting them as part of his own identity because he's kind of stuck with them. If you woke up in a random place and someone handed you a broom and said 'you're bob the janitor' and that's all you knew you'd probably believe it (/ref)

(If someone gets that reference I will love you forever)

"Do you really. . . not care about him?" - Earth Eclipse: Doesn't answer the question, answers a question with a question which is DEFLECTING

Sir? You do too still care don't you?

"It's kind of hard to empathize with you" - Earth Me: Runs up chat to grab something

"a normal person cannot relate to a sociopath because our life experiences are so vastly different. You (general you) will never be able to understand what it’s like to be physically unable to care about someone to the point that it hurts because you want to care. And a socio/psychopath will never be able to understand on a visceral level what it’s like to be able to connect with another person or be able to feel things all the time or to do the right thing simply because something compels you to and not because you had to ask yourself “is this morally good or bad behavior” because you just know" - Me four days ago

Do find it interesting how Eclipse has no comment when Earth says he doesn't like her He probably likes her just fine, if I'm being honest. Probably likes her more than most other characters. He's just kinda a jerk and likes to press her buttons because it's funny

When she does manage to hit something right on the nail "It must be scary, right?" And "You just never have a sense of control" He makes a kinda-joke "Are we just going to keep talking about how sad we are" to change the topic AND SHE LAUGHED SHE LAUGHED AT HIS JOKE 👑 Ma'am you dropped this

I do personally Eclipse's sense of humor because it's pretty on point with my own, but I also really enjoy people being uncomfortable with it as well because that's half the fun. So I'm getting a small amount of dark enjoyment of Earth being uncomfortable at the boom joke

((Earth did awesome considering the circumstances. I can respect the fact that she is communicating her own emotional and mental needs even while dealing with someone who's not exactly pleasant for the general populace. She's gotten a lot better at setting boundaries))

Eclipse walks out because he's irritated with Moon. It's a power play. "I may have been forced to be here, but you can't make me sit and listen to you." He honestly had no idea what Moon would have said at the moment, and I also don't think that it would have been the best timing for Moon to drop that on him. They need a calm environment where neither of them is worked up to start touching that topic. Also MOON He's apologizing for something that isn't even his fault and while I can respect that, I almost wish he wasn't taking the blame for something a past self did. Just like how Eclipse is trying not to take accountability for what dead-man Eclipse did. They're two people who have been hurt by the actions of their predecessors and are playing out a game that was set into motion long long before their time. Now the only question that remains is who is Romeo and who is Juliet

Anyway that was the episode

Am taking inquiries and demands as well as bounties for my head

[tagidearte-spam-sb]

The Daycare Attendant and Their Dialogue

A little ramble on some of the things I've noticed about their ways of speaking. This post ended up being predominantly about how they refer to one another. Most of this is speculation mixed in with my own views on them and their relationship, without discarding some other possible alternatives (for instance, although I do view them as two AIs that heavily rely on each other to function properly, I do not cast aside the interpretation that they are the same person).

(note: although I have played SB and Ruin, I did not play HW2 myself. All I know about that game has been through let's plays).

Sun is, obviously, the chattier of the two. Not only are his sentences longer, he speaks more of them in a row than Moon does - in fact, we only see Moon going on and on in Ruin (which we will discuss later).

Both of them use a lot of repetitions when speaking. From their infamous "clean up, clean up" line, to Sun's panicked "you like glitter glue? I have glitter glue!" and "light's on! Light's on! Keep the generators on!", to Moon's "hidey hide, hide away" and "bad children must be punished. Bad children must be found", "knock knock", etc. One of the first things Eclipse says is also a repetition ("warning, warning"). They appear to occasionally rhyme their words too, or at the very least use similar sounds in their sentences. This is a robot that works with young children, so it's not surprising.

On that same vein, their main insult to misbehaving children (and employees... or at least Cassie's dad) is also a repetition: "naughty, naughty" (which turns into "naughty boy" for Gregory), "rulebreaker, rulebreaker", and "bad kid, bad kid". In fact, it appears they repeat words more often when they're mad/stressed (Sun's no no nos, Moon freaking out in Ruin). Taking into account they get mad pretty easily when things don't go their way, it's not surprising we hear it so often, but it's neat.

Although both of them speak in an almost song like manner, with Sun's run on sentences flowing well between one another, Moon is the one where this is more evident due to how much shorter his lines are.

Moon is also the one who speaks in a more childish manner. Not only are his phrases shorter, he doesn't articulate them as much as Sun does, and seems to prefer shorter words and sounds, especially giggles. This makes Sun appear more developed. Key word being appear.

Sun tends to speak as if he's entertaining a crowd, doing his best to keep the attention on himself while trying to keep it fun. This is most evident in his level explanation parts in HW2, but it's also clear in SB. In Ruin, this is absent for... obvious reasons.

Both of them are somehow direct in their way of giving orders/saying what they want to do. When they can't be direct, they find workaround truths in order to conceal what they truly want to say, while keeping the main order clear (such as Sun saying the player will hurt their eyes if they work in the dark and ordering them to keep the lights on, rather than saying Moon will kill them so keep that room bright. Direct, but nicer).

Not at all important to FNAF speech lore but I think it's funny: Sun says the infamous Vanny line during the daycare intro section. "Are you having fun yet? (Are ya, are ya?)". 0.5 seconds after Gregory just stands there, which coincidentally is what Vanny does 0.5 seconds after Gregory gets into a vent (numbers exaggerated). I don't know. I just think it's funny. Replaying the daycare section after hearing Vanny yapping that line non stop gave me flashbacks.

The way they refer to each other and the pronouns they use are an entire thing, so let me separate it in two parts.

So that this post doesn't become scrolling hell on the tags, I'll keep it below the read more line:

Sun

Sun is the one who refers to himself the most. He frequently uses "I" or "me" when talking about himself, and does it way more often than Moon. Examples of this are "I have glitter glue!", "I'm stuck in a nap", "it really speaks to me", "I feel dumber just looking at it" - you get the point by now. The reason I'm going hard on this point is to contrast his way of speaking to Moon's.

When it comes to him referring to Moon, we only ever hear it twice. In HW2 he says "He'll wake up if the lights go out!". In Ruin, he says "Not me, the other me!". Besides those two voice lines, he merely alludes to Moon without ever mentioning him by name or by pronouns (such as when he says he'll turn the lights off himself, implying he'll let Moon deal with you, or when he says you can't work in the dark and instead of saying the real reason as to why, he cuts himself and goes "You'll- hurt your eyes if you work in the dark").

This is interesting for two reasons: one, we only see him directly mention his counterpart when he's in a ruined state (the HW2 voice line comes from the mask off section, when they're broken down. At least I think so); two, he simultaneously views Moon as separate from himself ("he'll wake up") and as a part of himself/another side of himself ("the other me"). You can take that as them really being the same "person", or as a reflection of their complicated body sharing situation. Take it as you will.

As far as referring to himself and Moon at the same time, he only does it in Ruin when he states "We need to be whole".

Moon

The way Moon structures his sentences means that he seldomly actually refers to himself directly. For instance, he doesn't say "I will find you" or "I will punish you", putting himself as the subject of the sentence. Instead, he puts others as the subject, wording it as "Bad children must be found" and "Bad children must be punished". This is consistent across all of his voice lines except one... Well, technically two.

To get it out of the way: there's a deleted voice line where he says "I'm putting you in time out", a line he and Sun share and which worked the same way the clean up one does - them saying the same thing, a push towards them being the same person ordeal.

The only in-game time he refers to himself directly is in Ruin. This line is also the only time he refers to both himself and Sun as a duo. This line is also the longest line of dialogue Moon has.

"(groaning noises) Naughty! Naughty! Make it stop! The light makes us hurt! Grind Grind! Grinding gears inside my head! We can't move. Error! Error!"

This line, much like Sun's, is interesting for various reasons. Even though Sun is no longer with him (being stuck in the VR world and separate from Moon, shown by how Moon can't move because the lights are on but his body can't shift into Sun, so he's completely stuck), he first refers to himself as a "us" - adding Sun into the mix. Then he refers to himself alone, "my head" instead of "ours", before going right back to a plural.

We can assume one of three things here: one, Moon refers to himself as a we more often, adding Sun into the mix, a complete opposite of his counterpart who typically speaks in singulars; or two, Sun is not as absent as he appears and in that moment he is in fact with Moon, just stuck on the passenger sit, hurting alongside him; or three, this is merely an effect of this being in the Ruin DLC where the whole point of the daycare section is to fuse Sun and Moon into the Eclipse, so the writers decided to bring the point home further. If you have more options, feel free to add them.

Side note: This voiceline also shows Moon's speaking patterns pretty well. Putting "the light" as the subject instead of "we/I", the rhyming, the repetition, the clipped sentences compared to Sun's endless ones, the noises, the scratchiness, the vague childlike mannerism... All ending with "we can't move", way more straight to the point, said right before he freezes up, which deviates from the "other subject first then me" rule due to the pain tearing through him at the moment.

Moon does not call Sun "the other me" or anything similar in any of the games. He never refers to Sun as if he too was Sun. However, we can assume his view on their situation probably mirrors Sun's - being in the same body and all -, so take it as you will.

And as for Moon referring to Sun as a separate individual... He does not refer to him as a "he". Instead, he actually mentions his counterpart by name, saying "No more Sun". Meaning he's the only one of the the two that has canonically used his other side's name. I think it's interesting how the least chatty one is the one actually calling the other by name and not the other way around. And yes, you can say it's a way of speaking and he's referring to the concept of the sun rather than saying his name, but taking into consideration Sun never utters the word moon, I'd say it's still quite a big thing.

In my headcanon land, due to the happenings at the Pizzaplex, Sun is probably too embarrassed and mortified to even mention Moon. Moon, on the other hand, has no reason to have such troubles besides hating Sun for (in his perspective) keeping him locked in a prison of light. So for me, it makes sense we never see Sun saying Moon's name, and it makes it more impactful when he actually acknowledges Moon as the other me rather than a he.

Eclipse

I lied there's three parts.

Eclipse has very few voice lines. The only one that matters here is "We need to clean this place up before we can open in the morning." This is pretty straight to the point: Eclipse, unlike Sun and Moon, doesn't use an "I". They immediately speak in the plural. They do not view themselves as just Eclipse, but rather as both Sun and Moon combined, at the same time.

As for the DCA being two AIs or one... in Ruin, Sun thanks Cassie after Eclipse is activated. It's left ambiguous. You can say Sun speaking afterwards proves they're not one and the same, "with the Sun and Moon AIs still running separately somehow", or you can assume Eclipse existing doesn't mean Sun and Moon can't keep doing their thing under safe mode, albeit in a less chaotic manner, allowing Sun's voice to come through but not making him any less Moon - he is Moon, he is Sun, and they are complicated yet very simple.

I believe in whichever version is more convenient at any given time, with a preference for "two codependent AIs" given what the games show us. Although, going by everything I collected here, the only theory I believe to just not be supported by canon at all is the one with Eclipse as a separate thing all together. Eclipse refers to themselves as a "we', not an "I". Eclipse activates when you make Sun and Moon "whole". It canonically makes no sense for Eclipse to be a third thing. (Please remember this is a post about what's in the games, the canon of FNAF. AUs and fandom or whatever, you do you).

That's it. Hope you enjoyed my rambling. Uh artblog unpaid promotion @tagidearte thank you for making it this far.

[socksandbuttons]

I HAD TO DRAW SOEMTHING DOWN FOR MY DUDE!!! I have Thoughts about all all this but good god this mans been rally thru it, they both have. AND YET HUGS ARE SO FAR AWAY. Don't worry Solar, you get hugs later. I'm just gonna assume his moon wrote down that note for him.

[redtoondevils]

Here it is. My evaluation, of Sun that I am defending from FNAF Security Breach, and the other games he appeared in.

I feel like these points are being overlooked. What I think about how there's characters, along with different forms.

Are so easily perceived as, in one thing or another. I also defend Eclipse too, it's just because they hold both of the personalities into them. I think, it would not make sense for Eclipse to turn against Cassie, after being thankful.

Eclipse has a soft side for kids, and is honestly looking forward into meeting them. Even though sadly, they don't know in an unclear way.

However, he isn't the animatronic to harm kids. He'd never EVER hurt Cassie! That is not his goal. I do think, they'd want to find answers, in their story line. For now, that can wait.

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I have my key points, as to appose to why I don't view him, as a 'Villain.' the same can apply to Eclipse. Despite being a flaw character.

So, it is already known, that for all 3 forms. The first 2 of the ones sharing this, are very complex characters.

Their history is complicated, along with that with their attributes. With what they decide to do. That impacts, them and can often at times be very challenging for them. When they try to survive.

Even more for what they are seen, they do have some sympathic moments seen, that are part of their development.

It is confirmed, that their personalities more connected other than sharing one body.

One personality can seemingly communicate with the other. They can share their thoughts, feelings, and pain.

That is a very deep character concept, and it has been at times been emotional.

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Sun, in my opinion, is the one who is protecting the other personalities. From harm, and exposure from anything.

This is shown a few times. With that in return, he finds stressful.

Because of that, there is a lot, an awful lot with what he has to endure at times. It came to that point, where he had to 'sacrifice' himself.

When, he wanted to become Eclipse he did that in order to fix Moon, and save him from destruction.

There are other times, where his actions were selfless, and having kindness to protect the main character from harms way.

He doesn't do that, a lot. Whenever he does, that makes me hopeful, in future games that he can be trusted. And he can be your friend.

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In the main game, he kind of appears as a 'Mild antagonist' towards Gregory.

He could not keep the kid in the spot he placed him in, when he didn't listen to him, he felt disrespected. And kicked him out.

His priorities, are very strict. Another reason, for what is speculated, is that the hour was nearly up.

He has the tendency of not allowing the main player to return, or go through to the next location. That is no answer as of yet, why he does this.

I think my theory, is that he keeps you from going there, because there is a ride over at the kids cove, that is broken. And he felt like he had to take those matters, by his own hands.

------------------------------------

There is a section, in the news papers, that has history behind the animatronics. And say's that the daycare attendant has been scaring kids.

The news reports, do not fully reveal the full truth to the stories.

It say's what happened, yet it is still unclear with what really happened. I'm going to say my version of this.

And start off by saying, because there is a lot of people that uses this to materialize the animatronics.

When Monty was reported to have used a bowling bowl to smash Bonnie in his skull, and shutting him down. Assuming that he did that because, he was jealous? It sounds way too extreme.

Monty, in game, appeared as a rogue crocodile that has an explosive temper. Yet, then on the walls, his cartoon self looks much more calmer. And a friendly guy.

Then the attendants report, it say's that a young child was crying, because he was traumatized by both of the forms.

And was given overwhelming anxiety that gave him night terrors.

In my personal take, is that Sun has a harsh interior, I don't want to believe that he deliberately tormented the kid.

I think, that when Sun first appeared towards Gregory, that he would step into his space, and circle around him, to get his attention.

For a young kid, some of them may even find his behaviors intimidating, and intense.

It could be at some point, that he gotten a bit too rough with him.

That seems like from the kids perspective, that he found Sun too energetic. I think he isn't a cruel animatronic. He is harsh, I don't think he's cruel.

However, when he turned into Moon. It is apparent that, he found him too scary.

Then after that incident, and when the attendant heard the reports, is when he felt guilty for doing that.

--------------------------------------

In Ruin, and with a small sequence in HW2. Ruin Sun, meets Cassie once again, and greets her with "New Friend!"

That line makes me believe that he knows Cassie. Because, he said that in a chirpy welcoming, yet relieved greeting. Towards kids.

When that part in the Jumpscare, where Moon attacks her there is a brief moment, where Sun actually did try to refrain himself from attacking her, but sadly couldn't.

The animation where he was afraid, and hiding under the desk having a panic attack being exposed to trauma. DID is associated with experience to trauma, since they were in such physical pain.

He purposely pulls himself away from inflicting harm, or other abuse onto an employee.

That is very considerate, and kindly of him to do that. That is why, I don't think he should be considered as a villain.

Because of how complex he is, his characteristics goes around in many grey coatings that doesn't go too dark.

[a-very-sparkly-nerd]

No but can you IMAGINE being Amity in Eclipse Lake?? Your girlfriend is sick and this is finally your chance to prove yourself to and do something nice for her! Awesome! Then you think she's only using you and threatening for results, which has been your entire life, and she was supposed to be different and she's totally fever-dreaming through the illness so what if these are her true colors and you were wrong about her and you can never seem to have any good people in your life?

And even after she realizes she was freaking out for nothing, that kind of worry doesn't just go away, it LINGERS for years to come, especially when it's backed by an entire life of emotional manipulation and abuse.

Poor Amity...

[williamrikers]

On the subject of consent in recent BLs

In this analysis, I will take a look at several love scenes in recent Thai BLs, how they frame consent and the sexual agency of the characters, and why those matter.

(KinnPorsche deserves its own post: I’m sure people have already written in detail about how much emphasis is placed on issues of consent/non-consent throughout the show and how fundamental consent is to the relationship arcs of both KinnPorsche and VegasPete, and I won’t belabor the point here. Also, special shout-out to The Warp Effect for what it brought to the conversation about gay sex, but TWE isn’t technically a BL so I decided not to include it in this analysis.)

I am going to take a closer look at the following shows in this essay: Not Me, The Eclipse, A Boss And A Babe, Step By Step, and La Pluie.

Not Me and The Eclipse predate the other shows by two years/one year respectively, but I feel it is valuable to include them here because both show very explicit negotiations of consent that I feel are spiritual successors to the wonderful scenes we’ve been getting in the other three shows.

Why am I even writing this? There used to be an unfortunate tendency in the genre to have a power imbalance between the “seme” and the “uke” character, which translated into the seme deciding when to have sex and what kind of sex to have—and even though recently, several shows have done good work in dismantling the seme/uke dynamic and questioning the associated stereotypes, it cannot be denied that the archetypes are still an important part of most BLs, and even in cases where the tropes are played with and questioned, understanding those subversions still requires a knowledge of and familiarity with the original tropes on the part of the audience.

However, gone are the days of Until We Meet Again and Dean’s “I’ve waited long enough, make sure you’re ready.” (I enjoyed UWMA a lot but that was. Yeah. Not Great.) Now, we see characters actually talking about and negotiating their limits, and doing what feels good to them.

Let’s start from the very beginning. Not Me was an absolute trailblazer in this regard, and not mentioning it here would be a gross oversight. The first time Sean and White have sex, it happens in their version of the beach episode. (Which, in Not Me, is the two characters briefly living in a tent inside an abandoned building. This show is the best.) Sean and White are removed from their usual environment and protected from the outside world by two barriers: the walls of the old house and the tent that’s literally enveloping them and giving them a space that is unequivocally theirs, shared, in which neither one of the characters has any sort of power over the other. And what happens in that space when they’re about to have sex is extremely interesting: the first thing Sean asks is whether White is afraid of him, which White denies. The following exchange goes like this: White: "So, what are we doing?" Sean: "What should I do to you?" White: "That’s up to you." (Watch the whole scene here.)

I find this exchange incredibly meaningful because this already turns the seme/uke dynamic that can be found in a lot of other shows on its head. OffGun as a branded pair can easily be stereotyped into the seme/uke dynamic just because of their physical appearances, and clearly spelling out that both characters have agency in this scene is incredibly important.

And then it gets better! Sean assumes that White is sexually inexperienced (which is not true but the fact that White was actually in a relationship with a woman back in Russia never comes up again after the pilot episode, so maybe the show expects us to assume this, too), and suggests they try different things and White can tell him what he likes and doesn’t like. Compared to the stuff we’re getting now, this scene isn’t very high heat at all, but it’s one of my favorite intimate scenes ever because them asking each other “Do you like this?” after every kiss, every touch, is so incredibly unique and transports a wonderful sense of figuring out sexual pleasure together, as a couple.

Sex in Not Me is not something one character does to another, it is something that is discovered and shared together, and we even get an afterglow scene in which they gently tease each other about their fast beating hearts. (And don’t get me started on the importance of White choosing to ask Sean whether Sean is okay with White not being like Black in that moment right before they have sex, because he doesn’t actually want to have sex with Sean as Black! He wants to discover and share intimacy with Sean as White, as himself, not as his brother! The layers!)

Anyway, I think that scene paved the way for a lot of the conversations around consent we’re now getting in BL, just because it is so explicitly, unashamedly putting forward a definition of sexuality that has nothing to do with one character actively giving and the other passively receiving, but frames intimacy as something that is built together. (More on giving and receiving later!)

Now, moving on to The Eclipse. I decided to include the first time Akk and Aye have sex for a different reason: while we don’t really see them actually talking about consent, we see them practicing non-verbal consent. Let me explain. Akk’s and Aye’s whole thing is teasing each other. At first, Aye is usually the one doing the teasing, but Akk gets the hang of it towards the end of the show and teases his boyfriend right back. When they’re in Akk’s childhood bedroom together, Aye clearly alludes to the fact that he thought they might use this opportunity to have sex for the first time, which Akk pretends not to understand, all while alluding to it himself. I love this guy. (Watch the whole scene here.) Anyway, Akk says he wants to sleep, lies down and once again, tells Aye jokingly he just wants to sleep, clearly expecting Aye to do what other BL protagonists do at that point and not take no for an answer (sidenote: I HATE the “saying no as foreplay” trope with a passion and as far as I’m concerned it should die already).

However, Aye is not like other BL love interests, and he backs off. He stops touching Akk, lies down with his back to Akk, showing Akk that he takes him by his word: if Akk says he wants to sleep, Aye is going to let him do just that. So now, it’s on Akk to say that, no, that’s not what he meant, can Aye please come back to cuddle. And then Akk is the one to escalate from cuddling to kissing, which is extremely important: we know that Aye has been ready to have sex with Akk since forever, it’s Akk who’s been having hangups about intimacy this whole time.

They don’t put consent into so many words on this show, but Aye shows Akk that he respects his limits and that Akk only has to tell him he doesn’t want to do something and Aye will take him at his word.

So, these are, to me, two foundational scenes of establishing consent: one that shows consent as something that is established verbally, as an ongoing conversation, and one that shows consent as something that is established physically, by showing your partner that you respect their choices and limits by way of simply acting accordingly.

Now, let’s get into the fun part: scenes we got so far in 2023. I’m writing this post on the 13th of June, and I’m sure this year still has some great things in store for us, especially because Step By Step and La Pluie are both ongoing and neither of the main couples are actually together yet at time of writing. However, they’ve both already given us AMAZING scenes on the topic of consent, so I feel it is worthwhile to write about those already.

I want to start off by talking about A Boss And A Babe.

Let me just preface this by saying that the intimate scenes in ABAAB are some of my all time favorites in BL ever, because in them, sex is something that is just so normal. When Gun and Cher have sex, we don’t see them very passionate, excited, reluctant or wide-eyed innocent (which are some of the emotions traditionally associated with sex in BL). On the contrary, in every single scene that shows them being intimate, both characters are incredibly calm. They’re certainly happy to be with each other, but in a subdued way. Someone described their second intimate scene as them seeming like they’ve been married for a few years. They’re both just… incredibly normal about having sex with each other. It’s simply something they like to do together. It’s a part of their romance but it’s not more or less important than any other aspects of their lives.

And consent is at the very heart of it.

When Gun and Cher have their first time, we see Gun explicitly asking for consent two times: first, “Can I kiss you?”, then, “Can I do more?” The second one even comes with the promise that if Cher says no, Gun will immediately go to sleep without mentioning it again. And then it is on Cher to say yes, to pull Gun close and kiss him to show him that he is comfortable with taking things further. (In the show, these two questions were shown apart from each other, I cut together a version of the whole First Time Scene in its entirety, watch it here.)

Now, things get more interesting: the second intimate scene shows Cher initiating the encounter (watch the whole scene here). Cher pretty consistently falls into the uke category, both physically and as far as characterization is concerned, but he’s certainly not shy in the bedroom. And this time, he’s the one who asks for consent from Gun: Gun asks “You’re starting it?” and Cher’s response is “Can I?” Despite him being framed physically lower than Gun, basically at Gun’s mercy, he still seeks confirmation that Gun is okay with the way things are going. Not to overstate it, but to me, this feels revolutionary. Once again, we’re being shown that sex is something two people do together, as a shared activity, and that the “seme” character isn’t expected to just be up for it. He, too, has the right to say no.

On this show, sexual agency is taken extremely seriously, and it is clear that both Gun and Cher give each other space to decide what they’re comfortable doing. This is shown in non-intimate scenes as well: there are so many moments on ABAAB in which the characters negotiate physical touch and closeness, asking each other for hugs before actually hugging each other, Cher leaning on Gun’s shoulder in the car but not allowing Gun to touch him because that’s not what he’s comfortable with in that moment, and so on. (The only exception to this otherwise pretty consistent rule is the kiss in the car scene, which I’m still extremely confused about because it seems to go completely against Gun’s character. Who knows what happened there.)

Of course, the fact that so much emphasis is placed on negotiation and consent isn’t surprising on a show that has such obvious kink undertones and whose Our Skyy 2 entry basically consisted entirely of Dom/sub roleplay at work—I’m just saying, I think someone on the writing team is way into BDSM and knows all about the importance of enthusiastic consent from all parties involved, and I would like to send them flowers.

Step By Step hasn’t really reached the point where we can analyse the dynamic between the main couple (although we can take some educated guesses based on the interactions we’ve seen so far). However, last week’s episode had an extremely important scene between Pat and Put: Pat wanting to have sex with Put, then changing his mind mid make-out (watch the whole scene here). I really like the way this scene was done. No matter how shitty Put treats Pat at times, in this instance, he immediately understood and respected Pat’s change of mind without Pat even saying or explaining anything—at the end of the episode, Put says to Pat that Pat should tell Put when he feels ready to have sex. (We already know this will never happen because of course, Pat and Put are not endgame, but I do appreciate the sentiment.)

BLs rarely include a whole storyline in which the protagonist is in an actual, serious romantic relationship with someone other than his endgame love interest (hi Moonlight Chicken!), or if they do then just to up the angst factor. In this case, however, I feel that this scene raises our expectations for Jeng even further: if the guy who is definitely not a romantic match for Pat treats Pat with this much respect in the bedroom, then Jeng has to do at least that and then some. I do feel confident that Jeng won’t disappoint in this regard, but it’s fascinating to see a show frame this kind of respect as the absolute baseline minimum, with the endgame love interest expected to do even better.

Now, the one you’ve all been waiting for. The one that made me write this whole essay in the first place: La Pluie.

Oh boy. Where to start.

A week ago, we got an incredible make-out scene on Saengtai’s floor, which ended in Patts stopping the encounter because he could tell Tai wasn’t really comfortable taking things further—@bengiyo talked about that scene in detail here. And then, three days ago, La Pluie gave us the most unique, trope-defying, timeline-changing blowjob scene of all time, and I want to talk about it.

Tai and Patts are making out on their bed, Tai is not ready to go “all the way” and stops Patts from undressing him. We see a very realistic frustrated reaction from Patts, who nevertheless immediately stops and accepts Tai’s wishes—it is clear that Patts does not expect things to go any further at this point, and that he won’t pressure Tai into anything.

And then, Tai offers to blow him.

(Unfortunately, this show is only on iQiyi so I can't link to it, but you can get a good impression of the scene here.)

I mentioned the concepts of giving and receiving earlier: other people have said this more eloquently than me, but there is a tendency not only in BL but also in wider society to view sex in terms of giving and receiving, with a lot of expectations and stereotypes attached to the roles during different sexual acts. On other shows, that blowjob might be framed as a consolidation or an apology, something that the giver does out of a sense of obligation without enjoying it much. Not so on La Pluie! Tai is shown incredibly happy and satisfied afterwards, both when they’re sleeping next to each other, as well as on the morning after (see also @ginnymoonbeam's post about that here). Tai offered to blow Patts because he simply wanted to, not motivated by guilt or anything of that sort. And he genuinely enjoyed it! In the post I linked above, @bengiyo points out that La Pluie consistently centers queer desire, or more specifically in this case, male desire for a male body; much in the same way that the camera fucking loves Force’s body on ABAAB: the sensuality of the skin, the hands, the abs, the flat chests, the broad backs and shoulders of these men is explicitly emphasized, and Tai’s desire for a dick in his mouth is made absolutely crystal-clear. Of course, since this is a TV show and not a porno, we only see Patts’s thumb in Tai’s mouth instead of his dick, but the imagery, the implications, are clear as day.

And it is such a gentle framing, too: Patts caresses Tai’s lip lovingly, Tai opens his mouth slowly, seductively, then faces Patts’s crotch with a soft look on his face. We do get a clear sense of this encounter as tender, and gentle, and most of all, desired. Tai’s queer desire is at the heart of this scene, and at the heart of the afterglow scene as well. He wanted this man’s dick in his mouth, openly suggested it, showed Patts he was sure about his decision after Patts asked him whether he was, and ended up clearly happy and satisfied with the sex they had. This post, also by @bengiyo, goes into more detail on that.

This, once again, shows us sex as a conversation rather than a series of predetermined acts, shows us sex as a shared activity, as something that can be wonderful and intimate and make people happy without following what society views as “the correct steps”. I think this is extremely important because one part of queer identity is figuring out one’s own relationship to sexuality, one’s own desires and needs, and BLs that ignore this aspect fall a little short in my opinion. Sure, those men are kissing, but do they experience queer desire? Do they experience joy in their queer desire?

For me personally, a show that does not shy away from these questions is a lot more meaningful than a show that does, and consent is at the heart of it all. By framing sex as a conversation, as something that is built and shared together, the shows I looked at here are actively positioning themselves against the idea that there should be predetermined roles for partners during sex, and instead suggest that queer joy can be found in communication and consent. Understanding sex and intimacy as something that is built together, with both partners as equals in conversation, is just as radically queer as a man waking up with a smile on his face after giving his soulmate a blowjob the previous night.

And quite honestly, a male character who clearly, passionately, unquestioningly communicates that he wants a dick inside of him—that is incredibly sexy. But maybe that’s just me.

[freakinator]

thinking about kab and the thing about her i think is she knows just enough to keep herself safe Generally but not enough to really predict what would happen should something more... complicated??? unforeseen??? idk whats the right word to use but something not covered by someones reputation and/or vids happen, believe it or not this also affects her view of clownpierce (we'll get to that)

for example, mapicc has a reputation for being an violent, angry, & impulsive guy and nothing else which makes sense but is incredibly surface level and something that only really works if you dont have a lot of experience working with him

another is reddoons, his betrayal after the base incident while shocking is not unforeseen but his reputation as being a guy whos seen as being a reasonable person whos fairly loyal to his team made it seem like something he wouldnt do even tho it absolutely is

regarding how it affects her view of clown, since he isnt perfectly aligned with his reputation she instead pivots in the complete opposite direction and forgiving basically every crime he does even tho hes something much more mild and complicated than either his reputation or her view of him will ever be (think madonna-whore complex which is especially obvious when it comes to kabs vs woogies view of him)

another side effect of this Just Enough amount of knowledge aside from being blinded by her own expectations is that it frustrates ppl who think shes oversimplificating things (like me and seemingly several other tumblr users as well) especially when she claims that shes objectively correct and the smartest in the room at any given moment

how this roughness in her analysis affects her in the server still has yet to be fully seen but we do still have at least a couple months until the end but 'til then shes just gonna keep stumbling as more and more complicated situations pop up as is typical in lifesteal to happen and eventually shes gonna have to learn to adapt or else she'll be suffering the consequences one way or another

[lavenoon]

He finds himself reaching for a different kind of flame, nowadays

hey hey @naffeclipse, would you like some bloodstain fool in this trying time?

og detective au by sunnys-aesthetic

also bonus Eclipse-less version under the cut

[silver-the-hedgeblog]

Silver's prototype profile says that he has "powers that draw from the Chaos Emeralds" and you know what else draws power from the Chaos Emeralds?

Not only is the energy of the Eclipse Cannon green/teal/cyan like Silver's powers but the electricity that it gives off is like the Psycho Shock that Silver uses on Sonic in 06.

While Silver can use his powers without Chaos Emeralds the bit about him drawing power from them is still made canon at the end of his Sonic Channel introduction story where his powers get super charged by one when he and Sonic are saving the bridge.

[solitary-star]

I’ve had a ridiculous workload for the past few weeks, but that hasn’t stopped me from reading chapter 16!!

@naffeclipse I want you to know how much I was wailing at this one. Just how quickly the hunter went from referring to them as their “dear friend” to “the demonic cryptid.” And the little moments when they finally began to realize that cryptid isn’t entirely dissimilar from the person they’ve gotten so close with… absolutely phenomenal!!

I’d say I’m at the edge of my seat after this, but I fell off that seat way back in episode four. Regardless, I cant fully articulate just how excited I am to see how things play out!!!

[naffeclipse]

Thinking about it and BL!Eclipse feels so much more overwhelming to deal with than Orclipse just because like- orca eclipse is always under y/n in the ice and could come from anywhere from the sea yeah. He's a dangerous part of the Arctic. But a naga in a forest can be ANYWHERE in the jungle. In the trees, in the water, under your feet, in the foliage, in the cave- literally every direction. Orclipse is a dangerous PART of the Arctic, but BL Eclipse is just the jungle itself. There's no hiding, no running- heck, no helicopter escape from the jungle itself.

Someone pls let photographer!YN rest.

That's literally it—he can grab Y/N whenever he likes. He can find them at the base, on their walk through the jungle, at the edge of the water. There's nowhere remotely safe for Y/N from his avarice, and isn't that just a dream come true for BL!Eclipse?

Poor Y/N needs a spa day smh

[alexandraisyes]

@starheirxero

So many tags oh my!

Firstly, sincerely, seeing everyone (like 12 people but shhh) enjoy these ramblings of a madman has truly made my day. It was so fun to sit down and read the tags you added, and then read them again... and then again... and maybe a fourth time hehe, gotta get that extra dopamine.

Congratulations, of course, are in order for reaching to the end and finding the hidden password. That's a whole 13 pages, almost 6000 words. I can only imagine how long it took to sit down and read all of that. I can however tell one how long it took to sit down and write all of that haha.

Jokes aside, I'm glad you enjoyed my analysis. Some people in my more superficial circles are encouraging me to do similar analyses on the rest of the characters I plan to use in Twisted Celestials, and I most likely will due to the benefit that comes as an author with dissecting the characters you intend to write about. So, nine more analyses for me to accomplish, and nine more analyses for you to look forward to.

I'm secondly glad that I'm not the only one who was suspecting he had a personality disorder. I do think, that had anyone else tried to capture this, and capture him, they would have fallen short due to the simple lack of understanding around ASPD. You have to live the life of a sociopath to understand a sociopath, and even then the majority of us don't know or understand that we have a disorder, and those who do generally are content to just stay the way they are. This only leaves a small percentage of the rest of us, and doing further math and the like, considering how rare ASPD is to form, etc... because there are very specific things that cause it to form in a person.

Namely, neglect during the most crucial time of formation during our lives. The first part of our lives, as humans, are those years between birth and around three years old. I'm not going to disclose my own trauma and situations that caused the formation of ASPD in myself, but I have the benefit of being able to step back where almost no one else can, and go "Yep, that's the perfect breeding ground for a disorder"

Because when you look at it, of course Sun and Moon didn't mean to neglect him, abandon him, or leave him confused... helpless... trapped. They didn't even know he existed, Moon never thought to check on Sun after they split, to look and see how that code he left was doing. I believe he knew that there was a high probability of his actions coming back to bite him in the ass, but he didn't want to both: - A; Take accountability and acknowledge what he did - B; Have the code, have to deal with Sun having the code, but also deal with the process of getting rid of the code

And of course, I went through recovery and redemption ideas for our favorite angry dorito. It doesn't make sense to outline a character who is struggling so bad, and was finally looking like he was going to change and reflect, and then not outline how they can improve. A lot of the stuff I listed for recovery are directly reflected by my own life, and intensive cognitive behavior therapy that I had to undergo when I reached a point that I could no longer be reasonably contained by rules and regulations my poor parents were trying to enforce. When it comes to people with ASPD, punishment will rarely work. We won't understand why we are being punished, because we don't feel any guilt, or a desire to correct things most of the time. (There are obviously exceptions to this rule, but generally only when it involves someone we care very deeply for.)

Because a discipline system doesn't work, a reward system is a better alternative. But the best alternative is a rationality/logicality system where you sit them down and outline how the person with ASPD is hurting themselves in the long run by their actions. (We love rationalizing, you'll get a lot farther with someone with ASPD with cold logic than you will with emotions). Which, again, as we see, no one really tries to rationalize with Eclipse. Moon does, a couple times, and lo and behold Eclipse listens. But when the others try to reason with him, they use emotion. "Don't you see you're hurting me? Others?"

Eclipse doesn't give a fuck Sun, sorry. You can't make him come around by appealing to emotions that he doesn't understand, and that he feels on a much smaller scale than you do. I think if people rationalized with him more, there would have been less issues. As I mentioned, and as you further pointed out, Earth also isn't going to be able to reason with Eclipse. Her whole thing is emotions. Guess who doesn't know jack all about emotions? (If you guessed Eclipse you're right).

He needs to be taught. Preferably he needs to be taught by someone who can understand him. Solar is the best candidate. After that I'm going to argue that Sun would be second best, simply because past Solar, he knows Eclipse better than anyone else. He knows that Eclipse is mortal, that he can hurt Eclipse, and he's gotten over a lot of his fear of Eclipse. He's not going to let Eclipse walk all over him either, as we saw in the last handful of Eclipse episodes, Sun was done with his bullshit. But also, Sun knows a lot of red flags that Eclipse has because Sun has these red flags. Sun has had to beat these red flags to the ground. Not to mention just bad habits, bad anxiety, and paranoia that both Sun and Eclipse have always shared. I'd even go as far as to say that Eclipse inherited them from Sun.

When I see people try to tackle giving Eclipse a redemption arc, they always pair him with Sun as the support, and I'm all here for it. I would like to see a fic that focuses on Solar and Eclipse, but since they are uh.... not exactly coexisting in the show (Eclipse is poofed when Solar comes to the og reality to live there) I don't think anyone has really considered it. I'm also going to put it out that Eclipse should not be given Lunar as support if he gets brought back. Those two have given each other so much trauma it will be an automatic dumpster fire as long as they both know exactly what's up. Eclipse killed Lunar and was... not great to him even when he did care because while he did care about Lunar, he was also trying to get Lunar to function as a temporary means to an end. So... manipulation, yay. And then Lunar up and ditched Eclipse, going to the two people who have hurt Eclipse so fucking badly and the worst part is it was all an accident that started this whole shebang. But yeah, Eclipse is 100% not okay about that, and it's gonna take a lot of work for him to get over the betrayal that just showed him it's not worth it to care about people.

On the tags about mental health portrayal and discussion - I'm so sorry if other people have been weirdly ableist about these characters. I really hope not, because I haven't seen any so far, past having to nudge people when they use the wrong psychological terminology to describe characters. Like, people call Eclipse a psychopath...? This confuses me because he's absolutely not a psychopath, and anyone who understands even the basics of personality disorders would know that. Of course, how many people understand personality disorders? I'm glad that I didn't come off as weird about this, however! I try to be as accurate as possible when displaying information, doubly so when it's something I have. It would be counter-productive to spread misinformation about my own disorder, haha.

Lastly, don't be afraid to use text wall me next time, no need to confine yourself to the tags lmao. I love interacting with people about this stuff, not just fandom stuff, but also character analysis and psychology stuff. And I did have an epic day thanks to you (did you read the part where I read your tags four maybe five times?).

Eclipse Character Analysis (Sun and Moon Show)

Alternate Title: Why I'm 95% sure Eclipse is a sociopath

A hopefully unnecessary disclaimer: - One, hi, hello I am a sociopath, I do know what I'm talking about. This also means that a lot of what I notice and will describe about Eclipse are similar or the same as my own experiences living life in this mortal realm. What I will touch on in the "redemption" section is heavily based on the kind of intensive treatment I had to get in order to improve my behavior when I was younger, so it's important to note that while Eclipse will never be able to change his personality (like how I can't change mine, and you can't change yours), he can change his thought patterns, mentality, and behavior. The saying that "sociopaths can't change" is specifically talking about how we can't change our personality, which is true for everyone. That doesn't mean we can't learn to function better in civilized society or be taught emotional awareness and morals. - Two, hi, hello this is just what I've noticed and does not mean it's canon unless Reed or Davis themselves come onto my Tumblr and go "Yes, this, this is what is correct", and even then, you're allowed to have your own opinions and views on these characters. I'm just theorizing here - Three, hi, hello I'm also a psychology student so I also know what I'm talking about in that regard too. I've been studying psychology and general medicine for three and a half years now, so I like to think I have some idea of what I'm talking about - Four, I use the terms sociopath, ASPD, sociopathic disorder, and anti-social personality disorder interchangeably since they all describe the same personality disorder - Five, this analysis is long, I cover the basics, an in depth, some potential scenarios, a redemption arc possibility, and some other thoughts I have about him. - Six, I made this disclaimer to address any potential misunderstandings, or harmful stereotypes that I tend to be confronted with any time I talk about ASPD. Now onto the good stuff!

Too Long; Won't Read - Here's a Summary

Attachment and Pride: Eclipse initially cared about Lunar, and his reaction to Lunar leaving suggests a fragile pride. His inability to connect with others is evident in his strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon.

Masking Emotions: Eclipse keeps his darker thoughts to himself at the beginning, and throughout the show as well. He masks both his emotions, and his intentions throughout the show, and is careful not to show when people have upset or offended him. This behavior stems from a learned experience that letting his guard down leads to resentment.

Manipulation and Brash Communication: Eclipse is straightforward and brash when expressing thoughts, feelings, or opinions. He employs manipulation when needed but is mostly disinterested in others.

Boredom and Stimulation: He seeks reactions from people, often causing chaos for entertainment. Boredom, especially when stuck as an AI, prompts him to instigate situations for amusement.

Lack of Empathy: He also appears to lack empathy, as evidenced by his inability to understand emotions and his focus on getting reactions rather than connecting with others.

Touch Aversion: Eclipse's lack of physical affection aligns with the common aversion to touch seen in individuals with ASPD.

Remorse and Growth: Eclipse shows remorse only in instances where he hurts Lunar in the beginning of the show, indicating a potential area for growth. A redemption arc could explore his struggles without completely erasing his apparent sociopathic nature.

Writer's note: A thoughtful portrayal of Eclipse's sociopathy, should my theory touch on the truth, if continued in a storyline, could provide an authentic exploration of mental health challenges and personal growth. Care should be taken to avoid stereotypes (DON'T USE GOOGLE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THIS I BEG)

Putting Him Under a Microscope - Full Analysis

1. Attachment and Pride:

Eclipse's initial connection with Lunar suggests a potential attachment, a notable aspect in individuals with ASPD who can form (highly) selective bonds. However, Lunar's departure significantly impacts Eclipse's pride. This reaction aligns with the fragile self-esteem often observed in those with ASPD. The departure becomes a perceived personal betrayal, triggering Eclipse's defensive response.

In individuals with ASPD, relationships often serve specific purposes, and Eclipse's attachment to Lunar may have been driven by a combination of genuine connection but also very clearly the utility Lunar provided in fulfilling certain needs or desires. (Which was helping Eclipse get the star of course)

Moreover, Eclipse's struggle with connecting to others, evident in strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon, is a characteristic of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often face challenges in forming and maintaining meaningful relationships due to their limited capacity for empathy and understanding of emotional nuances.

2. Masking Emotions:

Eclipse's tendency to keep darker thoughts to himself reflects a common coping mechanism associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often learn to conceal their true emotions early on due to negative experiences when expressing genuine feelings. This learned behavior serves as a protective measure against potential backlash or social rejection.

The fear of vulnerability and subsequent consequences aligns with the interpersonal difficulties faced by those with ASPD. Eclipse's decision to hide his less socially acceptable thoughts is a strategic choice aimed at avoiding conflict and maintaining control over his image.

Professionally, the concealment of darker thoughts is recognized as a defense mechanism in individuals with ASPD. This protective facade, or 'mask,' becomes an integral part of their social interactions, allowing them to navigate social situations with greater ease. However, this constant need to mask one's true feelings can contribute to internal struggles and further isolate individuals with ASPD from genuine emotional connections.

One may ask, what 'darker thoughts' did Eclipse show, or receive backlash for? Well, let's see, when he was stuck in Sun for the beginning of his life, he was first confused, a bit scared, and completely disoriented. He was forgotten, and during the first parts we can see him trying to reconnect with Moon, however, his delivery, as individuals with ASPD tend to do, was brash. It didn't sugar coat what he wanted, and considering his earlier transgressions previously, they weren't taken well in the slightest. Instead of Moon trying to genuinely talk and explain, all he provided Eclipse with was "I changed, and you didn't." and in general was very annoyed and irate with Eclipse. There were several times during the beginning of Eclipse, where there could have been progress made with him, to help him work through his issues, his internalized fear of being forgotten again, and the accidental neglect, that just… didn't happen. Because Sun and Moon saw him as a virus.

Moon because Moon saw himself as a virus, so what else would he think of something that originated in his code, and acted like he used to? Acted like he still sometimes did, parts of himself that he didn't like about himself, living and breathing once again in the mind of his brother. Corrupting him.

And of course, Sun because he was just so tired and hurt and he finally thought he could have something only for this ball of code to make itself known? This peice of his brother that was left behind, that was formed from Moon's killcode? That was constructed from Moon's literal need to lash out, hurt others, and kill. I'm honestly a little horrified that this is never touched on in the show, because people aren't just born to be awful, that's not how this works. There were so many opportunities where toxic and awful behavior could have been stopped if it was handled properly.

Of course, I'm not blaming Sun and Moon. It's hard to help someone who doesn't understand they need help, and as a result the person won't want help either. Plus, they've said it themselves in the episodes where Lunar had returned from the dead. They were never programmed to understand mental health issues, and they have a hard enough time grasping the concepts of their own mental health issues to deal with other peoples. Especially other people who are actively hurting them, it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who causes you harm as far as I'm aware. (I personally wouldn't know)

But back to my main point, there absolutely were times in the beginning where Eclipse was just honest about his wants and desires, and was shown disgust and hatred for it. Which would absolutely make him be prone to masking, which he does a lot in the show from what I can tell.

3. Manipulation and Brash Communication:

Eclipse's communication style, characterized by being brash and straightforward, aligns with the speech patterns and tendencies often associated with ASPD. When he's not trying to pull a fast one over someone, he's very blunt, and he doesn't beat around the bush. Individuals with this disorder may utilize manipulation as a means to achieve personal goals or navigate social situations, but without a reason to sugar coat, they won't. Although sometimes not sugar coating is also employed as a manipulation tactic, which makes it tricky navigating conversation at times with sociopaths. Eclipse's lack of hesitation in employing manipulation reflects the calculated nature of his interactions, as we see him smoothly switch between fronts, acts he puts on to get people to agree with him.

His disinterest in others, apart from exploiting them for personal gain, is consistent with the self-serving behaviors commonly observed in sociopaths. The use of manipulation as a tool for control and amusement is a manifestation of the disorder's impact on interpersonal dynamics. When he contacts Moon for help with Killcode, even then he has his own motives that are only helped by Moon being distracted with Killcode, as well as having KC out of the picture.

Professionally, manipulation is recognized as a prominent feature of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may lack the ability to form genuine emotional connections and, instead, view relationships as transactional opportunities. Eclipse's interactions, particularly with Sun and Moon, exemplify this transactional approach, where he derives amusement from creating chaos. This last bit (amusment) is important, and I'll cover it next.

Before I pop on over, this is where I'd like to touch on Servant Eclipse. He is very crafty, and very manipulative, but it doesn't fool Lunar, who he clearly cares about to some degree. (Again, will say it as many times as needed, people with ASPD can care about people, it's just a lot of effort at first, doesn't come naturally, and is reserved for a select few). Lunar in this reality probably knows Eclipse inside and out, and isn't fooled by the not very convincing "I'm just a husk now" act Eclipse is playing out with. I suspect that Eclipse also is aware the Lunar isn't fooled, but it amuses him to some degree to keep up the game. I can only imagine serving a "Lord Lunar" is a fairly excitable life, and it's unlikely he's extensively bored. He's also just as brash as the OG Eclipse, and doesn't sugar coat the truth, or tries to ease Gregory into topics.

4. Boredom and Stimulation:

Eclipse's constant quest for stimulation and amusement, even at the expense of creating chaos, reflects a key characteristic of individuals with ASPD. Boredom intolerance is common in this population, leading to a perpetual need for excitement and novel experiences. (Can speak from experience, I spend about 4-6 hours every day bored out of my freaking mind and it's absolutely torture - which is why I draw so much)

The portrayal of Eclipse as being "bored out of his mind" when stuck as an AI in KC's base underscores the challenge individuals with ASPD face in mundane or monotonous situations. The need for stimulation is a driving force behind their impulsive and sometimes risky behaviors. There's a certain kind of restlessness, and impulsivity associated with ASPD, very much an act before you think, get defensive when confronted, and maybe think about it two days later on the very small chance it triggers a sense of morals/remorse. (Then probably forget it happened, cause we are very good at not caring enough to remember half the stuff we do. This isn't a choice, by the way, people with sociopathic disorder just aren't wired to feel strong emotions like guilt and shame.)

Professionally, this behavior aligns with the clinical understanding of ASPD. Individuals with the disorder often engage in sensation-seeking activities to counteract feelings of boredom and emotional emptiness. Eclipse's enjoyment in hacking Moon's computer, causing reactions from Moon and Lunar, serves as an outlet for his need for stimulation and disruption, as well as fulfills other purposes in starting a conversation with Moon about KC.

And of course, now I get to touch on my two favorite things that just drill this in. When OG Eclipse gets the star… what does he do? He torments Sun and Moon instead of wiping everything away, and I'm aware this is mostly because he doens't have mastery over the star. But what does Sun say, when Eclipse shows up to torment them on top of the play structure. Something along the lines of, You're just bored at this point? Is that it?

And what does Eclipse do? He leaves. Because Sun is absolutely right, and it probably stings his ego to have someone he so fully has convinced himself of hating to be right about him. Even before he gets the star… just how much effort did he really put into getting the star? Sure, he had this big plan, but I think he was aware that the 'perfect world' would never make him happy to start with; he just felt the need to be something larger than life, so of course you must set the largest goals to achieve in order to be that. He could have gotten the star so much faster lets be honest. I fully believe he was just having too much fun messing with Sun and Moon, because it gave a reaction, and the reactions to his actions were exciting, breaking his boredom. He was bored a lot, stuck in Sun's head, stuck in Sun's body and pretending to be Sun, stuck as an AI, stuck with Solar Flare's AI fighting him, stuck being unable to use the star…….. seeing a pattern yet?

And of course, my second favorite thing. Lord Eclipse. Moon full out calls him out on how bored Eclipse is, and Eclipse first tries to deny it, then sees no tactical advantage to denying it, and admits that yeah, he is bored. He's been bored for ages and Moon is the first exciting thing in what feels like forever. He's not happy in his perfect world, but he isn't going to change is because that would cut his pride for Sun and Moon to be right about what he wants and needs after so many years. So many years of his Moon being dead. Of having Sun as an obedient servant, bound to his beck and call. He's bored, and it shows, and he knows that it shows.

5. Lack of Empathy:

Eclipse's consistent inability to understand and empathize with the emotions of others aligns with a central feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). Individuals with ASPD often struggle with recognizing and comprehending the feelings of those around them.

His focus on getting reactions rather than forming genuine connections reflects the hallmark trait of lacking empathy. Eclipse's interactions with Sun, Moon, and Lunar highlight his detached and indifferent approach, as he manipulates situations purely for personal amusement without regard for the emotional impact on others.

Professionally, the deficit in empathy is a well-documented aspect of ASPD. Those with the disorder may comprehend others' situations on a cognitive level but struggle to grasp the emotional nuances involved. Eclipse's inability to understand why Lunar is upset and his constant pursuit of reactions underscore the emotional disconnect inherent in individuals with ASPD.

Eclipse's interactions with Lunar provide a poignant illustration of his consistent lack of empathy. Despite a seemingly genuine attachment to Lunar in the beginning, Eclipse's emotional disconnect becomes evident as Lunar leaves. The impact of Lunar's departure on Eclipse's pride and subsequent defensive reaction highlights the absence of genuine understanding of Lunar's emotions. Eclipse struggles to comprehend the significance of Lunar's departure beyond a perceived personal betrayal, showcasing a lack of empathy toward Lunar's perspective.

Moreover, Eclipse's manipulation and attempts to provoke reactions from Lunar, even after Lunar has left, underscore his disregard for the emotional toll on Lunar. This behavior aligns with the typical patterns seen in individuals with ASPD, where the pursuit of personal amusement takes precedence over the emotional well-being of others.

Eclipse's inability to process and acknowledge his own damaged ego resulting from Lunar's departure further emphasizes his lack of emothional understanding. He doesn't want to admit that Lunar hurt him, so instead he just continues to shut it down, bottle it up, and let it churn into hatred instead of looking at what he did wrong. His resentment and refusal to acknowledge the emotional impact on Lunar highlight the emotional blindness inherent in individuals with ASPD, especially in the context of complex interpersonal relationships.

6. Touch Aversion:

Eclipse's noticeable lack of physical affection, as both seen throughout the show, and mentioned when Lunar clings to Sun and states that Eclipse never showed him physical affection, aligns with a common trait among individuals with ASPD. Touch aversion is a characteristic feature, as those with the disorder often lack the intrinsic desire for physical closeness or intimacy.

Eclipse's minimal physical interaction, even in what could be perceived as emotionally charged moments, is consistent with the general pattern observed in individuals with ASPD. The absence of hugging or comforting gestures suggests a limited appreciation for the emotional needs of others.

Professionally, touch aversion is recognized as part of the interpersonal challenges associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may not instinctively seek physical connection unless it serves a specific purpose, such as manipulation or personal gain. Eclipse's avoidance of physical affection adds a layer to his character, illustrating how his interpersonal behaviors align with the clinical understanding of ASPD.

This aspect of Eclipse's character contributes to a nuanced portrayal of the disorder, showcasing how the lack of tactile expression can impact the dynamics of his relationships, particularly in situations where emotional support is expected. (Like seriously, even Sun and Moon hug when one of them are having an awful day, but Eclipse? He literally doesn't seem to understand why Lunar craves positive physical touch so bad, because he just… doesn't feel the need himself. You can never fully understand something you experience, and it's not like people were explaining these basic needs and wants to Eclipse… ever.)

7. Remorse and Growth:

Eclipse's occasional display of remorse, particularly in instances where he has harmed Lunar, offers a glimpse into a facet of his character that deviates from the (BAD DOWNRIGHT AWFUL) stereotypical image associated with ASPD. While individuals with ASPD are often poorly and harmfully characterized/stereotyped by a complete lack of guilt or remorse, Eclipse's moments of internal conflict suggest a degree of emotional complexity.

Professionally, the intermittent remorse aligns with the recognition that individuals with ASPD may experience moments of internal conflict, especially in relationships that hold personal significance. Eclipse's struggle with whether to apologize after hitting Lunar reveals a brief internal debate, questioning the severity of his actions against Lunar's emotional response.

However, Eclipse's ultimate decision not to apologize, driven by his failure to perceive the significance of Lunar's distress, reinforces the inherent challenges in navigating emotional landscapes for those with ASPD. This internal conflict and eventual dismissal of remorse contribute to a more realistic portrayal of the disorder, highlighting the ongoing tension between impulsive actions and moments of potential introspection.

Should Eclipse undergo a redemption arc, these moments of internal conflict could serve as a foundation for growth, illustrating that while individuals with ASPD may grapple with moments of remorse, their ability to sustain lasting change remains a complex and challenging journey. Of course, I'm going to cover this as well.

Redemption and Recovery

Eclipse's potential redemption could be approached with an understanding that a complete overhaul of his personality is near impossible, because as psychology has shown, you don't just change your personality. However, nuanced growth and positive change within the framework of his behaviors and thought patterns can be explored.

Increased Self-Awareness: Eclipse could undergo a process of heightened self-awareness, acknowledging the impact of his actions on others. This could involve introspection into the motivations behind his behaviors and the consequences they entail. This won't be something he does on his own, he's going to need someone behind him, pushing him to be better. Preferably someone who has no majorly poor history with him for the best results.

Therapeutic Support: In a realistic redemption arc, Eclipse might engage in therapy tailored to individuals with ASPD. This could involve developing coping mechanisms, enhancing emotional intelligence, and learning healthier ways to navigate interpersonal relationships. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a very affective type of therapy for people with personality disorders, or collections of disorders that combined provide the complications of a personality disorder.

Recognizing the Value of Relationships: Eclipse could gradually come to recognize the value of genuine connections beyond their utility. This may involve acknowledging the significance of relationships for emotional support and personal growth. This is going to be a process, and he will mess up. He will forget. It's something he will have to choose to work with in order for it to work, and even then he will make mistakes. It will be important to have patience with him, and instead of lashing out (cause that can cause a spiral back into poor behavior), working on these slip ups with him, and helping him relearn the significance of correcting it when he messes up.

Empathy Development: A full restoration of empathy is be unrealistic, Eclipse could work on developing cognitive empathy—understanding others' perspectives intellectually, even if not emotionally. This could improve his ability to navigate social situations more effectively. (This is what I do! <:happy_stim:867544047735275521>)

Establishing Boundaries: He should learn to set healthy boundaries in his relationships, understanding that manipulating and exploiting others for personal gain may provide short-term satisfaction but is detrimental in the long run.

Contributing Positively: As part of his redemption, he could find avenues to contribute positively to others' lives. This could involve utilizing his unique skills for constructive purposes, fostering a sense of accomplishment outside of manipulative endeavors.

Maintaining Accountability: Eclipse's growth would involve a commitment to being accountable for his actions. This includes acknowledging mistakes, making amends where possible, and actively working towards minimizing harm to others.

Embracing Personal Growth: Eclipse's redemption arc could focus on embracing personal growth within the constraints of his personality. It's about acknowledging that while he may not fundamentally change, he can adapt and evolve to lead a more balanced and fulfilling life.

Potential Future Scenario: Eclipse Apologizes

Brought to you by someone saying that Lunar would refuse Eclipse trying to apologize, but I respectfully disagree, and here's why.

I think that if Eclipse ever does apologize to Lunar, Lunar would have literally no choice but to accept, because we’ve seen early on that he does not apologize

To genuinely apologize and acknowledge his wrongdoing would be major character development that would take a lot of time and struggle to get to that point, based on my theories/analysis about him

So by the time he can actually, truthfully apologize, there would be evidence to prove his struggle with his own twisted nature, and probably how he failed at times during the journey, and had set backs and road bumps. The others would have most likely seen the effects and effort it takes to learn to change for him, and would most likely acknowledge that he’s being truthful.

If Lunar doesn’t accept at that point, if it ever got to that point, Lunar would be acting irrationally due to emotional complications, would probably just hurt Eclipse when he’s trying to be better for his brother, and would most likely set him back. There’s a very destructive pattern of thought when it comes to personality stuff (which is what I think Eclipse struggles with, a specific personality disorder I’m writing a comic thingy about), because you can’t change your personality. You can’t will yourself to be a certain way, and so it’s very easy to destroy progress people make on self improvement. So lunar refusing the apology would most likely not only hurt Eclipse’s pride (like it was hurt when Lunar left his side the first time) but would also further his belief of “why bother if they won’t accept the fact I’m trying for them” that he’d probably struggle with throughout a period of character growth.

Lunar’s smart, and pretty emotionally aware. He can be petty, but if Eclipse were to get to that point, I don’t think Lunar would refuse it because he would have already seen the struggle and effort Eclipse had put through just to get to that point

Logically, Solar would be the best person to help Eclipse, not Earth

This is partly copied/pasted from some conversations and does analyze Solar a bit as well

I really honestly doubt that Earth is going to be able to help him, if he comes back, and I’m suspecting that Solar would do a better job because he’s the only who can understand, properly, the absolute hell that was waking up inside of Sun’s mind with no idea what’s going on and how he got there. Earth can be sympathetic and show him pity, but that’s not going to help him very much at the end of the day. He doesn’t want sympathy, he doesn’t want pity because he has associated that with being weak and out of control. He needs some one who will understand him, and who will fully understand how one small thing changed so much due to the snow ball effect. Which Solar would understand. He’s “nice eclipse” after all, aka just an Eclipse without such bad formative trauma. So he never spiraled, but he’s just as blunt and analytical as Eclipse tends to be, and would be able to actually communicate with Eclipse about his issues since it’s a situation he could have easily been in had things gone slightly different

Solar is probably the only one who can understand, and I mean properly understand, Eclipse’s trauma and bottled up emotions. And I think that if they’re going to give Eclipse someone who will support him, they should do Solar. He’s got all boxes checked

The ability to fully understand Eclipse

No bad history with Eclipse that would really affect how Eclipse treats him (It’s not like Eclipse knows he built the satellite)

Similar base personality, his just wanted warped and twisted in the start, but if you strip away Eclipse’s issues, they’re practically the same person… for obvious reasons

The willingness to say what needs to be said, and not try to sugar coat. Earth would try to let Eclipse down easy about stuff, ease him into it, and he’s gonna see that as her being manipulative because that’s how he manipulates people. He needs someone who is just going to lay things out on the table

And of course, Solar most likely wouldn’t think Eclipse is too far gone to change. Because how do you think that of yourself? And they are the same person, just from different perspectives. It’s a similar dilemma I have to just writing off Eclipse, when I take him apart and see myself staring back at me. But I was able to improve, it just took work, and it took a situation dire enough to get me to realize that if I didn’t want to ruin the few things I cared about, I needed to get my crap together. And that’s probably what he’s gonna need to, something that threatens what he cares about to the point he realizes that this can’t go on. (And I’m suspecting that something will be control over his own life, just like it was for me.) We saw at the end of his life, that he was starting to self reflect and realize that he needs to change somehow, and this was because his control over his own life was being threatened I suspect.

Extra, Smaller Analysis on Solar and Eclipse

It is important to note that Solar doesn't have this issue (ASPD), and I believe it's because he didn't suffer the same beginning that Eclipse did. They resolved the Solar issue when he popped into existance very quickly from what we can tell, and so he wasn't left in the dark for months on end, left to stew in his own agony and emotions. Personality issues are caused by trauma, and specifically ASPD is directly tied to neglect during the most crucial formative stages in development. Sun and Moon had no idea Eclipse was there, and didn't mean to abandon him, because they didn't know he existed. But this complete, and utter abandoment, what is probably internalized as a personal betrayal because I can imagine Eclipse being destroyed by the idea that Moon left him behind on purpose. Which is just… not a good thought for my man to have, because that leads to feelings of worthlessness, and self-hatred for not being 'good enough' to keep/take care of/help. Which then just snowballs into other negative emotions, that gets him all worked up, and then he's fuming at the fact that they left him. That they decided he wasn't worth keeping around, and how dare they make that decision about him for him?!

You can see how it gets out of hand quickly, as he realizes the neglect he's suffering from, the abandonment he's facing, and the fact that he's now trapped. That Moon got to escape, but he can't and it's not fair. This is the perfect breeding ground for that funny little disorder called sociopathy, and boy, there's almost nothing at this point that can convince me that he doesn't have it because it's all just a little too perfect. And the worst part?

I really really doubt it was done on purpose, but holy heck it would be so cool if it was. Not just because of how beautifully crafted it is in his character, how it's so consistent and real, but also because if it was done on purpose, it would show that the writers took the time to do real research about a disorder that is so often done so poorly, and is commonly confused with a completely different issue (psychopathic disorder). Even knowing that it probably wasn't done on purpose, I'm still gonna just cling to him because I love him and I want him to get the happy ending he deserves. And I mean that genuinely, people who are suffering and lashing out because they're drowing in hate due to unfortunate circumstances that were really out of their control deserve to be given the tools to improve themselves and their lives, and it would be wonderful to see this sentiment reflected in the show.

Wrap-Up Ramble/Writer's Notes

This is, of course, my own personal observations, and it is definitely a lot to read. I had a lot of fun constructing this thread, because it is so rare to find a character that I feel I can properly connect to. I've struggled with a lot of the patterns Eclipse has shown in the show that I've called out, and I've had to go through the steps in the 'redemption arc' section myself. It's not an easy process, and as I mentioned, him realistically improving is going to be a process that is going to be draining on himself, and the people around him. He will have to wake up and choose to go against the walls he's thrown up around himself every single day if he's going to have a realistic redemption, and it's going to be exhausting. But I do genuinely believe that he can change, and improve, because I was able to change and improve as a person. It took time, years of intensive self examination and cognitive based therapy, and it required a strong support system. Which hopefully, if he comes back to the show, he can obtain, because otherwise he will continue to drown in his own bitter stew of resentment for others and himself. And that's no fun, that's just depressing.

A lot of people look at Eclipse and think the villain, but I just can't. His actions make him a bad person, but taking apart the psychology behind him, and seeing how glaringly similar a character is to you that is supposed to be the 'bad guy'… I want him to be able, if he comes back, to get the proper 'recovery arc' that he deserves, and I really hope that if they do try to save him from his own demons, they do it properly, instead of giving him a complete 180. Because you can't change your personality, and Davis and Reed seem to be aware of that with Moon. Even when old Moon tried to be better, he was still an awful person. And the 'new' Moon is still eerily similar to the old one, and as the time goes on, he just becomes more and more like the old one. Because it's the same AI, he just lost his memories. He didn't do a whole personality change because he got his memory card wiped, because he's the same person where it counts. He just has the benefit of not having all of the pain his past self was carrying. He's free of the hurt, and trauma, and self hatred old Moon carried, but he's still Moon.

So I'm really hoping that they continue to accurately display psychology in their characters if they bring Eclipse back, because it is such an immersive show due to the fact that it makes sense. These things make sense psychology wise, their behaviors, actions, patterns of thinking and speech. And I really am looking forward to seeing if they bring Eclipse back because he's such a beautifully constructed character.

You Made It

This is the end of my massive post. Congratulations if you made it this far. If you did, uh, the password is Dorito. Leave it in the comments/reblogs to let me know you made it, haha.

I'd love to see people's thoughts on this and on him, so feel free to leave your thoughts as well in comments/reblogs. I'll try to reply to every single one I see. Again, I love his character so much, it's so well crafted, and it was so fun to take this apart.

[reaper-ankou]

Lunar fan here n just wanna rant lol. while I understand the frustration of lunars actions, i don't understand why people act as if he did everything on purpose or compare him to nexus. going as far as to give him the name in some cases.

see, to me, this isn't ooc of him. He's always been morally grey. on the lighter scale but grey nonetheless. in the beginnig, when he started to help sun and moon, it was because they offered him something. (apologies if it's incorrect). He left eclipse for the purpose of a game, and the abuse too. i dont believe he's afraid to do what he did back then either. he would if he had too.

with the whole thing with rez wasn't his best moment yeah. really bad choice but i don't blame him. He was practicing and learning about star power for a year. a YEAR!! he's been struggling with it, learning it. and then he gets told that he just needs to get over it. that his emotions are the root of it all. I'd be upset, really upset. and when rez came about, i think he was very gentle in his approach. which was kinda different than the astrals. rez feels moree... human? which could explain more so why lunar decided to have him help.

moving onto the whole eclipse thing. i can understand where he's coming from. Despite it being a different version of him, he still acts the same to lunar. of course lunar dosen't help much due to his persistent teasing. but as lunar said, eclipse dosen't act different to him. even if he's shown remorse on EaPs, he hasn't told lunar . he and lunar don't speak, and thats the problem. they don't and can't. not without someone there to help mediate. which i think is also why he's jelous of earth and eclipse. Because he treats her better than he ever did him. which, as i could imagine, hurts.

ill yap more on another post since this is long-

[bluerasbunny]

-cracks knuckles- ALRIGHT. TIME TO HYPER-ANALYZE THE RUIN DCA IN THE NEW POSTER AND GARNER INFORMATION THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE PROBABLY

so. many things of note here.

THE DESIGN CHANGED. CRACK DOWN BELOW THE EYE THAT WAS NOT THERE BEFORE, MOON'S COLORATION ON FACE RATHER THAN SUNS (ALTHOUGH THIS MAY JUST BE LIGHTING?)

YOU CANNOT SEE MOON'S SIDE OF THE FACE. ONLY MOON'S EYE IS LIT. THIS IMPLIES MOON HAS A HIGHER DEGREE OF CONTROL THAN SUN DOES- IN FACT, A LOT OF THIS IMPLIES MOON HAS MORE CONTROL THAN SUN??

the hands i could go on for years about the hands the way they're posed his fingers are tucked he's in such a non-aggressive stance please let him be friend shaped please steel wool come o

THEIR LEGS ARE BENT A LIL, LIKE HE'S TRYING TO BALANCE DESPITE THE LACK OF A FOOT ON ONE LEG (how is he MOVING how is he doing that i wanna see that animated so bad)

WE WERE RIGHT, HALF OF THEIR TORSO DOES APPEAR TO BE MISSING!! THEIR LOWER TORSO IS NOT USUALLY THAT THIN, ITS USUALLY SOMEWHAT EQUAL TO THEIR CHEST

CRINOLINE IN THE PANTS!!! YOU CAN SEE IT NEAR THE BOTTOM

OTHER LEG APPEARS FINE??? SO THERE'S THAT AT THE LEAST

WE STILL HAVE NOT SEEN THE REST OF MOON'S HAT THOUGH THE DCA IS NOW LACKING IN BELLS FROM THE LOOKS OF IT

LEG ENDOSKELETON IS CONSIDERABLY THICK IN WIDTH? NOT SURE WHY BUT THAT IS AN INTERESTING TIDBIT CONSIDERING ITS WIDER THAN THEIR FOREARM

I AM LOSING MY MIND. /pos

SO. SO HYPE FOR JULY 25TH IT CANNOT COME FAST ENOUGH. THE BOYS HAVE RETURNED

[the-solar-system52]

I was listening to Sun's Help Wanted 2 voicelines again and noticed something interesting I wanna discuss (spoilers: Fazbear Entertainment is doing something shady again)

First, we need to clarify something. It pretty clear that our POV character in HW2 is an adult, and someone who works at Fazbear Entertainment. Once more, I think this minigame is supposed to be like a test simulation of how Sun would act around a child, which explains why we are a grown adult playing arts and crafts. And explains why there are no other children present. The player and Sun have to act out the situation of Arts and Crafts, as a test of some sorts, like employee training.

I think this is why Sun's personality is so inconsistent throughout the minigame. He will go from calling us his 'friend' to insulting us in a second. Sun isn't perfect, but I doubt this is how he would actually act around a child.

His personality is changing because some voicelines are him playing along with the role play, and pretending our POV character is a child. And the others are him going off-script and making jabs at Fazbear Entertainment by insulting us and our work.

This is also why he compliments our artwork and then proceeds to shred it. Because its not real, its just a role play, so there's no need to keep the artwork. I dont think he'd shred a real child's artwork. The player character probably isn't even offended by it.

No matter what DCA lore you believe, it always circles back to Sun being treated awfully by Fazbear Entertainment. Mainly, they refuse to properly fix the Moon problem and I think this explains some of Sun's weirdly out of character voicelines in this. His attitude probably stems from the fact our characters works for Fazbear Entertainment, and he has a huge grudge against the company and all who work there.

"Ha, I should turn off the lights myself."

"Do it again, and you're taking a nap."

Sun is absolutely terrified of the Moon and the dark. From all his other behaviours in other games, it doesn't make sense for him to joke about the lights going out and a child getting hurt. But if our POV character isn't a child, then it makes more sense. Since it's Fazbear Entertainment fault that Moon is so violent, he doesn't mind using some dark humour because he feels like the employee deserves it. Reaping what you sow, in a way. Sure our character is just an employee and doesn't make big decisions like that, but Sun doesn't know that and I don't really blame him for being distrusting to any adult human he meets.

A lot of people, mainly Moon fans, try to use that first line about the lights to reason that Sun isn't actually that scared of Moon. Because he can joke about it, which obviously means he would be willing to turn the lights off out of spite! And he isn't as afriad as we originally thought!

But if you listen past this line into other voicelines, you can see this obviously isn't true. At some point, Sun mentions that it will be naptime soon, and is obviously very scared. He pushes the player character to finish the art quicker and generally becomes more and more anxious and frustrated from that point onward. So it's clear he is still very afraid of Moon, and probably wouldn't be okay with our character getting murdered.

(Also, literally everything that happens in the hard mode of this level confirms this.)

Anyway, this is where it gets really interesting in context. Because when he mentions it's nearing naptime he says,

"Don't work in the dark, never work in the dark."

And then, after a second, adds

"You'll...hurt your eyes if you work in the dark."

This is obviously a cover-up as to the real reason you can't work in the dark, Moon. But it's not like this employee wouldn't already know about Moon.

(Probably my favourite peice of worldbuilding in SB is that Sun literally has a warning for Moon at the back of his head, so this cover-up isn't so the employee doesn't learn about Moon, because they obviously already have.)

But with the context that this is supposed to the employee acting out the role of a child, this made me realise something.

Fazbear Entertainment doesn't allow Sun to talk about Moon.

Listen to the line again, and tell me you don't hear it! It sounds like he just remembered the employee was in the room and had to add the excuse on quickly so he didn't get in trouble.

He never calls Moon by name, and always uses some sort of riddle or metaphor to explain what is happening to him. At first I thought that was just how he talked, but maybe it's because he's just not allowed to tell people whats going on!

He omniously warns Gregory to keep the lights on, but doesn't tell him why. Even when Gregory gets closer to the security desk he only says "that area is off limits" and doesn't try to explain how dire the situation really is.

Hell, even when the lights are out and he has nothing left to lose, he doesn't say anything direct about Moon that would help Gregory.

Maybe part of the reason he banned Gregory from the daycare is because he felt he had no other option, it would be pretty hard for Gregory to stay if Sun couldn't explain what just happened.

And you could make the argument that he's just trying not to freak out Gregory, but what about a situation where he has no hope of not freaking someone out? Why doesn't he say anything about Moon then, if he once again, doesn't have anything left to lose.

When he meets Cassie he says

"I am trapped in a nap!"

And in Help Wanted 2 he says

"He'll wake up if the lights go out."

Both use sleep as a metaphor for not being in control of the body, even though I highly doubt Moon is actually unconscious during these moments, since Moon always seems to know where is his target is, so I'm guessing he has Sun's memories.

Again in Ruin, he instructed Cassie to turn on the generators, warned her when it wasn't safe, and even sang a creepy metaphor-ridden version of Daisy Bell! And yet he never mentions Moon by name??

He also never mentions Eclipse by name, and instead just asks Cassie to make them "whole".

And in Help Wanted 2, there was no reason he couldn't properly explain the situation to the employee in the hard mode, since they weren't in the role play anymore.

For whatever reason, Fazbear Entertainment has pretty much brainwashed him to never directly mention Moon. I think this was probably to keep up the false narrative they have made with the Moondrop Candy posters that Moon is a good guy. And Sun telling the kids, or other people, the truth about Moon would be bad for publicity.

I feel really bad for Sun though, that he couldn't properly warn anyone if the lights were about to go out, or talk about his problems at all.

What I'm really interested in is if he has just been told not to say anything OR is there something in his coding literally stopping him from saying Moon's name. Like, if he tried, he would just go mute and not be able to talk.

Although the latter is an interesting concept, I don't think it's true.

First of all, Moon mentions Sun by name in his Ruin voicelines and I wouldn't really make sense for this coding to only apply to Sun.

Second of all, even if his code prevents him from talking about Moon, if he was really determined to say something, he could just use substitute words, write, draw, or in any other way communicate what he wants to say and bypass the coding.

No, I think it's a little more psychological. It could be possible Fazbear Entertainment has simply just told him to keep his mouth shut, and since they have control over everything in the Pizzaplex, he's too afraid to go against them. I wouldn't put it past them to threaten to turn the lights off if he speaks up either. Or to scrap him.

Sun has always had an irrational attachment to rules, which would also be explained by Fazbear Entertainments threats. He is determined to keep things clean in the Daycare, but his room is an absolute mess. He doesn't bat an eye at Gregory trespassing in the Pizzaplex at night, but does care when he goes into an "off limits" area. His hypocritical and confusing take on rules can be explained by these not actually being his real opinions, but just paranoid habits brought on Fazbear Entertainment's treatment of him.

"You're gonna get us in trouble..."

As far as we know, he doesn't have any friendships with the other animatronics. And besides Moon's patrols, Sun never seems to leave the daycare. Dudes just a paranoid loser with no friends. (real) This isolation could've been encouraged by Fazbear Entertainment's threats.

In conclusion, fuck Fazbear Entertainment and I hope the next game involves a robot uprising of sorts.

Edit: I have no clue how forgot this, but thank you to @technowingsgs for reminding me of Sun's line,

"Not me! The OTHER me!"

This is probably the most egregious and direct example of Sun refusing to say Moon's name. Since he's trying to tell Cassie that she needs to reboot Moon, but can't get away with just using a pronoun, he actually resorts to using an alias. Which may point more to the theory that its his coding that stops him from mentioning Moon, since hes ok with using an alternative name, but I'm not sure. But it could be a combination of factors.

I mean, I doubt its just that Sun doesn't know Moon's name. If MY name was SUN and I saw merch littered around the pizzaplex of a dude that looked like THIS:

Wouldn't exactly take a genius to come up with a name.

Also! A lot of people were confused at this line and didn't know why Cassie couldn't just reboot Sun in his AR body. So I want to attempt to explain what I think!

It seems that, since Moon is controlling their real body, Sun's consciousness has been pushed into the AR World. And the thing about the AR World is that it isn't exactly real. MXES can't hurt you when you take the mask off, because he doesn't have a physical body, he's more of an ghost or hologram. You can walk through walls, use portals, and enter arcade machines. Overall, it's seems to be some sort of non-physical unreality.

So the reason Sun tells you to reboot Moon and not him, is because he's really talking about his physical body and his AR body. If you tried to reboot him with the Vanny mask on, it simply wouldn't work!

This because you have to stick the fazwrench into his head, flip a switch, and that somehow merges Sun and Moon's code together into Eclipse. Their code is no doubt stored in a circuit board of some sorts, maybe even the one that's visible at the back of their head. All of these things are physical changes, that rely on the materials and mechanics inside his physical body. So if you tried to reboot him in a non-physical plane, it wouldn't do anything! Since AR Sun is more of a projection of his consciousness, like a ghost, and isn't fully connected to his corporeal body. Thus, the fazwrench couldn't reach the necessary code inside his circuit boards. That's why he asked you to turn the lights on, so Moon would freeze up and you could safely reach him.

That, and the game would be too easy if you didn't have to turn on the generators to freeze Moon! Sorry if that segment was too technical, I waffled on a bit.

[byler-alarmist]

Random thought- the two songs sung in ST3, "Total Eclipse of the Heart" and "Neverending Story", both feature "turn around" in their lyrics.

May not mean anything, but I thought it was neat!